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	<title>Comments on: The Whole ORU Lawsuit Thing</title>
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	<link>http://tysonwynn.com/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/</link>
	<description>Right-Wing Nutjob, Religious Fanatic &#38; Citizen Journalist Tyson Wynn</description>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://tysonwynn.com/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-3063</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 01:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sorry for my grammar, it was a poor  representation of the education one gets at ORU. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for my grammar, it was a poor  representation of the education one gets at ORU. <img src='http://tysonwynn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://tysonwynn.com/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-3062</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 01:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tysonwynn.com/index.php/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/#comment-3062</guid>
		<description>Re: &quot;I must include as a side note however, that I have never been taught that anyone must speak in tongues or be slain in the spirit to be saved.&quot;

Good heavens Roxanne, you didn&#039;t realize that was a core doctrine of WOF? I&#039;m shocked. In all seriousness, I&#039;ve never heard of of that before - and I grew up in close proximity to the WOF movement. Moreover, I&#039;d be very skeptical of the research methods (and perhaps motives) of  an individual who suggested that being &quot;slain&quot; or &quot;speaking in tongues&quot; are salvation essential to WOFers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8220;I must include as a side note however, that I have never been taught that anyone must speak in tongues or be slain in the spirit to be saved.&#8221;</p>
<p>Good heavens Roxanne, you didn&#8217;t realize that was a core doctrine of WOF? I&#8217;m shocked. In all seriousness, I&#8217;ve never heard of of that before &#8211; and I grew up in close proximity to the WOF movement. Moreover, I&#8217;d be very skeptical of the research methods (and perhaps motives) of  an individual who suggested that being &#8220;slain&#8221; or &#8220;speaking in tongues&#8221; are salvation essential to WOFers.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://tysonwynn.com/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-3061</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 00:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tysonwynn.com/index.php/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/#comment-3061</guid>
		<description>Oh well. Thank you for even taking the time you did. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh well. Thank you for even taking the time you did. <img src='http://tysonwynn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tyson</title>
		<link>http://tysonwynn.com/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-3049</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 02:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tysonwynn.com/index.php/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/#comment-3049</guid>
		<description>David,

Thanks for your comment. 

Let me politely decline to respond to your request for me to explain the statement of mine that you quoted. Here&#039;s why:

I have provided the references to two excellent resources by Hank Hanegraaff that explain my statement better than I ever could. Frankly, there&#039;s not enough space here to do it, and I don&#039;t currently have the time to re-do what Hanegraaff already has. 

If and when you read these resources--which are replete with documentation of how the Word of Faithers deny essential Christian doctrine--you will see exactly what I mean. 

I don&#039;t intend to have a further debate here about Word of Faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment. </p>
<p>Let me politely decline to respond to your request for me to explain the statement of mine that you quoted. Here&#8217;s why:</p>
<p>I have provided the references to two excellent resources by Hank Hanegraaff that explain my statement better than I ever could. Frankly, there&#8217;s not enough space here to do it, and I don&#8217;t currently have the time to re-do what Hanegraaff already has. </p>
<p>If and when you read these resources&#8211;which are replete with documentation of how the Word of Faithers deny essential Christian doctrine&#8211;you will see exactly what I mean. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t intend to have a further debate here about Word of Faith.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://tysonwynn.com/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-3048</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tysonwynn.com/index.php/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/#comment-3048</guid>
		<description>As an ORU alum, I wanted to reiterate what other alumni have   said: accountability is essential. Hopefully this mess will bring it about. 

When it comes to the lawsuit, I suspect the truth lies in the middle. As a student, I had classes with two of the three professors. If this interaction was any indication, I believe all the former professors desire to see the university succeed in the future. That said, if indeed the termination was wrongful (as I strongly suspect), it needs to be remedied.  


On another note, Tyson please explain the following statement: 

&quot;...Word of Faith, however, has proven itself to be heretical and cultic in that it denies, corrupts, compromises, and/or condemns elements of essential Christian doctrine.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an ORU alum, I wanted to reiterate what other alumni have   said: accountability is essential. Hopefully this mess will bring it about. </p>
<p>When it comes to the lawsuit, I suspect the truth lies in the middle. As a student, I had classes with two of the three professors. If this interaction was any indication, I believe all the former professors desire to see the university succeed in the future. That said, if indeed the termination was wrongful (as I strongly suspect), it needs to be remedied.  </p>
<p>On another note, Tyson please explain the following statement: </p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;Word of Faith, however, has proven itself to be heretical and cultic in that it denies, corrupts, compromises, and/or condemns elements of essential Christian doctrine.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tyson</title>
		<link>http://tysonwynn.com/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-3041</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tysonwynn.com/index.php/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/#comment-3041</guid>
		<description>Roxanne, 

Let me thank you for one of the most well-thought-out and well-written responses I have received to this matter. I appreciate your visiting the WynnBlog and taking the time to comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roxanne, </p>
<p>Let me thank you for one of the most well-thought-out and well-written responses I have received to this matter. I appreciate your visiting the WynnBlog and taking the time to comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Roxanne Suggs</title>
		<link>http://tysonwynn.com/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-3036</link>
		<dc:creator>Roxanne Suggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 06:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tysonwynn.com/index.php/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/#comment-3036</guid>
		<description>I attended ORU 1979-1982.  I am grateful to God for Oral Robert’s obedience to God in building this University.  I received a good education, was head of a CSC ministry that visited children on the Pediatric floor at Hillcrest Hospital, met wonderful friends from all over the United States, and met my husband who was a member of the O.W. Coburn School of law at ORU.  Interestingly, Lindsey came to ORU as a first year law student, and thus was my husband’s classmate.  However, she did not graduate, but instead became Mrs. Richard Roberts. Three of my sisters also attending ORU, as did two of their husbands.  There are many things I loved about ORU such as:  it’s emphasis on excellence, the whole man concept (body, soul and spirit), the Aerobic Center modeled after Kenneth Cooper’s famous Dallas Aerobic Center; daily noon communion services; Sunday night Vespers; CSC (Christian Service Counsel) Ministries as an alternative to Sororities and Fraternities; encouragement to make Jesus lord over every aspect of our lives; the importance of personal Bible study; the philosophy that all of us are ministers for Lord no matter what our chosen vocation.  

My time at ORU was during the height of the “Prosperity Movement” (or whatever we label it). One of my best friends, who graduated with a 4.0, attended the Mayo Medical School and is now an eye surgeon and I were partners in ministry at Hillcrest Hospital.  We encountered suffering children, many of whom were abused, neglected or terminally ill.  How could we reconcile our experience with these precious suffering children with the “name it, claim it” philosophy?   We had to search our hearts, scripture and God for an understanding of what exactly we had been promised as Christians.  We became quite the crusaders against what we decided was a misunderstanding of scripture at best.  I argued with those who insisted that “King’s Kids” were to live like Princes, that it was God’s will that we all be in perfect health at all times and that it was never God’s will that we suffer.  I did not, and do not believe these ideas to be scriptural.  I will not take time to cite my scriptural rebuttals. 

In my opinion, The Word of Faith Movement and the Charismatic Movement mean different things to different people, despite what may be an official declaration of doctrine (if there is such a thing).  I believe the WOF teachings have encouraged many to seek scripture, and pray the promises of God.  The wonderful ministry of Mom’s in Touch was founded on the effective method of “bathing” our children in scriptural prayer.  The Charismatic Movement ushered in a new freedom in worship including raising one’s hands in worship, now observed in so many churches that are not “Pentecostal”.  I must include as a side note however, that I have never been taught that anyone must speak in tongues or be slain in the spirit to be saved.  I have never known this to be a part of the Word of Faith doctrine despite its other flaws.  

I have witnessed the disillusionment of people who misunderstand faith, believing it to be a type of miraculous force able to heal and produce wealth.  When they did not get healed, when their marriage failed, when their babies died, when they tried to conjure enough faith to fix whatever ailed them and it didn’t work, their only two options were to believe that either they failed, or that God failed.  It would require much writing to enumerate all the tragic consequences of this false teaching.  

God is the essence and object of our faith.  This misunderstanding of “entitlement” has no doubt caused, or at least greatly contributed to this current situation at ORU.  Further, great faith produces great obedience, not necessarily great wealth or health.  Do I believe that God can and sometimes does supernaturally heal Christians today?  Do I believe that God can and sometimes does supernaturally provide material provision?  Yes, but I believe his ways are not our ways, and that he is much more concerned with our holiness than our “happiness”.  We are called to be his workmanship, to be living sacrifices, to be servants, to not be conformed to this world, but to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.  We were warned that we would have tribulation.  The promise is that when we abide in him, we will find a secret place of the most high where we will find shelter and peace despite the circumstances. The good news is that we can all have forgiveness of sin because of the shed blood of God the Son, Jesus Christ.  We are promised that we are then filled with his spirit, which will also raise us from the dead to live eternally in the presence of God.  God has promised us many other wonderful things in his Holy Word, but to reduce the amazing spiritual, eternal atonement to be some kind of formula for health and wealth is an abomination!  

I have had to continually ask the Lord to help me have the right heart in regard to this, and other such scandals.  I confess that I do realize a sort of satisfaction with the confirmation of what I have been preaching for over twenty years:  God will not be mocked; we reap what we sow (this being especially ironic considering the whole “seed faith” doctrine).  Additionally, we can not mix the things of the world with the things of God as it always leads to destruction.  And yet, I must be so very humble in my own strength and righteousness as it is as filthy rags.  But, as it has been said “I do not condemn anyone; they are condemned already by their own sin.”  We must guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus, hate the things he hates, love the things he loves, and live our lives to honor our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.  

I believe we must all live like we believe that everything done in darkness will come to light.  When I study God’s word, I do not see a rich, fat church, but a church that is rich with all spiritual blessings.  We are between the cross and the crown, and we are to be his hand extended to a world that so desperately needs a Savior; our work should be about the eternal things. Does anything good come from Oral Roberts University?  Yes, it does, and by God’s grace will continue to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I attended ORU 1979-1982.  I am grateful to God for Oral Robert’s obedience to God in building this University.  I received a good education, was head of a CSC ministry that visited children on the Pediatric floor at Hillcrest Hospital, met wonderful friends from all over the United States, and met my husband who was a member of the O.W. Coburn School of law at ORU.  Interestingly, Lindsey came to ORU as a first year law student, and thus was my husband’s classmate.  However, she did not graduate, but instead became Mrs. Richard Roberts. Three of my sisters also attending ORU, as did two of their husbands.  There are many things I loved about ORU such as:  it’s emphasis on excellence, the whole man concept (body, soul and spirit), the Aerobic Center modeled after Kenneth Cooper’s famous Dallas Aerobic Center; daily noon communion services; Sunday night Vespers; CSC (Christian Service Counsel) Ministries as an alternative to Sororities and Fraternities; encouragement to make Jesus lord over every aspect of our lives; the importance of personal Bible study; the philosophy that all of us are ministers for Lord no matter what our chosen vocation.  </p>
<p>My time at ORU was during the height of the “Prosperity Movement” (or whatever we label it). One of my best friends, who graduated with a 4.0, attended the Mayo Medical School and is now an eye surgeon and I were partners in ministry at Hillcrest Hospital.  We encountered suffering children, many of whom were abused, neglected or terminally ill.  How could we reconcile our experience with these precious suffering children with the “name it, claim it” philosophy?   We had to search our hearts, scripture and God for an understanding of what exactly we had been promised as Christians.  We became quite the crusaders against what we decided was a misunderstanding of scripture at best.  I argued with those who insisted that “King’s Kids” were to live like Princes, that it was God’s will that we all be in perfect health at all times and that it was never God’s will that we suffer.  I did not, and do not believe these ideas to be scriptural.  I will not take time to cite my scriptural rebuttals. </p>
<p>In my opinion, The Word of Faith Movement and the Charismatic Movement mean different things to different people, despite what may be an official declaration of doctrine (if there is such a thing).  I believe the WOF teachings have encouraged many to seek scripture, and pray the promises of God.  The wonderful ministry of Mom’s in Touch was founded on the effective method of “bathing” our children in scriptural prayer.  The Charismatic Movement ushered in a new freedom in worship including raising one’s hands in worship, now observed in so many churches that are not “Pentecostal”.  I must include as a side note however, that I have never been taught that anyone must speak in tongues or be slain in the spirit to be saved.  I have never known this to be a part of the Word of Faith doctrine despite its other flaws.  </p>
<p>I have witnessed the disillusionment of people who misunderstand faith, believing it to be a type of miraculous force able to heal and produce wealth.  When they did not get healed, when their marriage failed, when their babies died, when they tried to conjure enough faith to fix whatever ailed them and it didn’t work, their only two options were to believe that either they failed, or that God failed.  It would require much writing to enumerate all the tragic consequences of this false teaching.  </p>
<p>God is the essence and object of our faith.  This misunderstanding of “entitlement” has no doubt caused, or at least greatly contributed to this current situation at ORU.  Further, great faith produces great obedience, not necessarily great wealth or health.  Do I believe that God can and sometimes does supernaturally heal Christians today?  Do I believe that God can and sometimes does supernaturally provide material provision?  Yes, but I believe his ways are not our ways, and that he is much more concerned with our holiness than our “happiness”.  We are called to be his workmanship, to be living sacrifices, to be servants, to not be conformed to this world, but to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.  We were warned that we would have tribulation.  The promise is that when we abide in him, we will find a secret place of the most high where we will find shelter and peace despite the circumstances. The good news is that we can all have forgiveness of sin because of the shed blood of God the Son, Jesus Christ.  We are promised that we are then filled with his spirit, which will also raise us from the dead to live eternally in the presence of God.  God has promised us many other wonderful things in his Holy Word, but to reduce the amazing spiritual, eternal atonement to be some kind of formula for health and wealth is an abomination!  </p>
<p>I have had to continually ask the Lord to help me have the right heart in regard to this, and other such scandals.  I confess that I do realize a sort of satisfaction with the confirmation of what I have been preaching for over twenty years:  God will not be mocked; we reap what we sow (this being especially ironic considering the whole “seed faith” doctrine).  Additionally, we can not mix the things of the world with the things of God as it always leads to destruction.  And yet, I must be so very humble in my own strength and righteousness as it is as filthy rags.  But, as it has been said “I do not condemn anyone; they are condemned already by their own sin.”  We must guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus, hate the things he hates, love the things he loves, and live our lives to honor our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.  </p>
<p>I believe we must all live like we believe that everything done in darkness will come to light.  When I study God’s word, I do not see a rich, fat church, but a church that is rich with all spiritual blessings.  We are between the cross and the crown, and we are to be his hand extended to a world that so desperately needs a Savior; our work should be about the eternal things. Does anything good come from Oral Roberts University?  Yes, it does, and by God’s grace will continue to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://tysonwynn.com/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-2995</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tysonwynn.com/index.php/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/#comment-2995</guid>
		<description>Lindsey&#039;s ring fingure??? On Larry King Live...HUMMMMMMMM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindsey&#8217;s ring fingure??? On Larry King Live&#8230;HUMMMMMMMM</p>
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		<title>By: Buz</title>
		<link>http://tysonwynn.com/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-2990</link>
		<dc:creator>Buz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tysonwynn.com/index.php/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/#comment-2990</guid>
		<description>This ORU stuff is nothing new, read: &quot;Give Me That Prime Time Religion&quot;,(c)1979 by Gerald Sholes.  It has been this way from the very beginning!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This ORU stuff is nothing new, read: &#8220;Give Me That Prime Time Religion&#8221;,(c)1979 by Gerald Sholes.  It has been this way from the very beginning!</p>
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		<title>By: Tyson</title>
		<link>http://tysonwynn.com/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-2981</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 06:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tysonwynn.com/index.php/2007/10/02/the-whole-oru-lawsuit-thing/#comment-2981</guid>
		<description>As He is God, the Ten Commandments are Christ&#039;s as well. His other requirements certainly are commandments, though not what people usually understand you to mean when you speak of Commandments 1-10. His additional commands certainly are a summary of His Law.

I understand your desire for references. That&#039;s why I pointed you to the two books I mentioned. I think you will find them very informative, and they are chock-full of first-hand references. 

I was offended by your continuing efforts to attribute things I was not saying to me so that you could then counter them. I think you were doing that, and I accept your apology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As He is God, the Ten Commandments are Christ&#8217;s as well. His other requirements certainly are commandments, though not what people usually understand you to mean when you speak of Commandments 1-10. His additional commands certainly are a summary of His Law.</p>
<p>I understand your desire for references. That&#8217;s why I pointed you to the two books I mentioned. I think you will find them very informative, and they are chock-full of first-hand references. </p>
<p>I was offended by your continuing efforts to attribute things I was not saying to me so that you could then counter them. I think you were doing that, and I accept your apology.</p>
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