Comments on: The Southwestern Experience http://tysonwynn.com/2007/03/22/the-southwestern-experience-2/ Right-Wing Nutjob, Religious Fanatic & Citizen Journalist Tyson Wynn Thu, 01 Mar 2012 17:35:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Joseph Alleyne http://tysonwynn.com/2007/03/22/the-southwestern-experience-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5500 Joseph Alleyne Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:28:56 +0000 http://tysonwynn.com/?p=407#comment-5500 I hear all this talk about about what SW did and did not do. But it is not about SW in the end, it's about you. Its aobut the 80/20 rule. I faild my frist two summers. I owed the comany money. I had to look inside myself and I saw things about myself that I did not like. I came face to face with fear. I had a deep fear of being outside my comfort zoon. As hard as this program was it was the best education. Columbia Universtiy,The State university of New York and other places of learning did not come close. So for all those out there who want to say that SW did something wrong I say check yourself and ask the question. When did you plan to step into the real world? For most college kids in our nation... facing fear, life and death... as part of their daily living is not part of the equation. In the SW program ones gets set up for the truth about themself. For most of us, we do not like what we see. So we blame SW. By my trhid summer I got it. I made myself deal with me and my fears. And I made money and life long friendships. I went out there for four summers and I hated each one but I love the man I became. A man who can deal with life and all that comes my way. From babies dying to my mother dying, to Making money to loosing money, to having my house burn down, or the joy of my first born. Guys it's called life. And I have been ready for it and dealing with it from the age of 19 till now at 50. And I owe SW a [thank you] for putting it in my face the way they did .... A kid from Brooklyn New York who went on to make millions,give back to others.... travel the world....get along with people different from myself... not be taken back by the unknown..... I love you SW. I hear all this talk about about what SW did and did not do. But it is not about SW in the end, it’s about you. Its aobut the 80/20 rule. I faild my frist two summers. I owed the comany money. I had to look inside myself and I saw things about myself that I did not like. I came face to face with fear. I had a deep fear of being outside my comfort zoon. As hard as this program was it was the best education. Columbia Universtiy,The State university of New York and other places of learning did not come close. So for all those out there who want to say that SW did something wrong I say check yourself and ask the question. When did you plan to step into the real world? For most college kids in our nation… facing fear, life and death… as part of their daily living is not part of the equation. In the SW program ones gets set up for the truth about themself. For most of us, we do not like what we see. So we blame SW. By my trhid summer I got it. I made myself deal with me and my fears. And I made money and life long friendships. I went out there for four summers and I hated each one but I love the man I became. A man who can deal with life and all that comes my way. From babies dying to my mother dying, to Making money to loosing money, to having my house burn down, or the joy of my first born. Guys it’s called life. And I have been ready for it and dealing with it from the age of 19 till now at 50. And I owe SW a [thank you] for putting it in my face the way they did …. A kid from Brooklyn New York who went on to make millions,give back to others…. travel the world….get along with people different from myself… not be taken back by the unknown….. I love you SW.

]]> By: Radically Dreaming http://tysonwynn.com/2007/03/22/the-southwestern-experience-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5490 Radically Dreaming Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:02:46 +0000 http://tysonwynn.com/?p=407#comment-5490 I was recruited for Southwestern this past May, but backed out of it before putting in any money after doing some research. I'm a student in sociology, so I've studied social theory, organizational theory, and specifically things like Enron, the practice of sub-prime lending, and the fast food industry. I find the Southwestern phenomenon fascinating from a sociological perspective, though I personally disapprove of the company and its business model. I found Mr. 28 Years Later's post really interesting in this respect, since they're things I couldn't have known since I have never actually done the program and never intend to. One of the most important consciousness raising steps I took was to decide that I do desire challenge and personal growth, but that Southwestern is simply a bad avenue. I would also like to say that I really enjoyed reading this post. I see that you label yourself a right-wing nutjob and a religious fanatic (though maybe somewhat jokingly), so we would probably disagree on nearly everything. But I really appreciate the candor and humanity displayed here, in addition to the writing skill. I was recruited for Southwestern this past May, but backed out of it before putting in any money after doing some research. I’m a student in sociology, so I’ve studied social theory, organizational theory, and specifically things like Enron, the practice of sub-prime lending, and the fast food industry. I find the Southwestern phenomenon fascinating from a sociological perspective, though I personally disapprove of the company and its business model. I found Mr. 28 Years Later’s post really interesting in this respect, since they’re things I couldn’t have known since I have never actually done the program and never intend to. One of the most important consciousness raising steps I took was to decide that I do desire challenge and personal growth, but that Southwestern is simply a bad avenue.

I would also like to say that I really enjoyed reading this post. I see that you label yourself a right-wing nutjob and a religious fanatic (though maybe somewhat jokingly), so we would probably disagree on nearly everything. But I really appreciate the candor and humanity displayed here, in addition to the writing skill.

]]> By: Tyson Wynn http://tysonwynn.com/2007/03/22/the-southwestern-experience-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5412 Tyson Wynn Sun, 12 Apr 2009 01:15:12 +0000 http://tysonwynn.com/?p=407#comment-5412 John, This is not a SW bashing site. This is my personal website, wherein I commented about <em>my</em> experience with SW Co. The comments come from everyday people who found the site via the Internet; none of them are my friends. I approve all comments made, whether they agree with me or not (so long as I can determine the commenters are not affiliated with SW Co.). Your comment is way off base. John,

This is not a SW bashing site. This is my personal website, wherein I commented about my experience with SW Co. The comments come from everyday people who found the site via the Internet; none of them are my friends. I approve all comments made, whether they agree with me or not (so long as I can determine the commenters are not affiliated with SW Co.). Your comment is way off base.

]]> By: 28 years later http://tysonwynn.com/2007/03/22/the-southwestern-experience-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5411 28 years later Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:53:28 +0000 http://tysonwynn.com/?p=407#comment-5411 Excellent post, well done sir. Some thoughts on the “Southwestern experience” 28 years later. Sales school: The only memorable item from Southwestern sales school was “talk low and slow.” The rest of it must have been easily forgettable “emotional candy.” I do not remember watching videos (’81) so we must have gotten the “live” Mort Utley. I watched Mort Utley give the “Pony” story online and still do not remember Mort or the Pony story. Hey Mort, a kid who digs through a pile of manure looking for a Pony is delusional and in need of professional help. I must have dismissed Mort as a quack. One of my Southwestern awards had an etching of Mort doing something funky with his hands and a quote of his. Something about “thinking big” I believe. I trashed my Southwestern awards when I found them during a move – had to get rid of useless “clutter” (years ago). Extortion: The base foundation of the “experience” is extortion. The company had your money in their bank and if you weren’t the “good” “independent contractor” you would be sent home and screwed out of your delivery profits. Every now and then an “example” would be made of someone who was “disobedient,” sent home and lost their delivery profits. The primary motivation for showing up at the Sunday meetings and pretending you drink the company kool-aid was the fear of being screwed out of your delivery profits. We had a Southwestern “superstar” as one of the student managers. With a couple of weeks left in the selling portion Mr. “Superstar” told all of us that we had to move from our present location to a new location “at least 100 miles away.” No explanation was given. It was understood that this command was given because the company had our money and the leverage to practice this type of extortion. 28 years later I can not remember “Mr. Superstar’s” name, just remember him as “gospel of extortion boy.” Fascinating “character” legacy. For those who have had the “experience” recently; after college you will get busy with life and the “experience” will fade away. After 25 years of marriage and 3 wonderful children the “experience” seems like a surreal dream of the “Alice in Wonderland” variety. Some other thoughts. “Prostitute logic:” Little ditties like “You make what your worth” or the implicit “it’s only illegal if you get caught.” Let’s think about the “character” implications of these for a little while kids. Hmmm … what else. Oh yes, the experience is “spun” as “faith-building.” Let’s see … “Thou shalt practice extortion if thou hast the ability to do so” must be the 11th commandment. “Thou shalt use emotional sales tactics to get thy neighbors money” must be the 12th commandment. If your looking for a character building job and mental toughness then work with Autistic children; as a Nurses Assistant or even as Wait Staff. The Southwestern company has it’s own definition of reality and character. The best “fruit” of the “experience” was a deeper appreciation of family; genuine relationships and personal integrity. If I may paraphrase Benjamin Franklin: “Experience is the best teacher, and the fool knows no other.” Politely reject the Southwestern “experience” and not be someone’s fool. Excellent post, well done sir. Some thoughts on the “Southwestern experience” 28 years later.

Sales school: The only memorable item from Southwestern sales school was “talk low and slow.” The rest of it must have been easily forgettable “emotional candy.” I do not remember watching videos (’81) so we must have gotten the “live” Mort Utley. I watched Mort Utley give the “Pony” story online and still do not remember Mort or the Pony story. Hey Mort, a kid who digs through a pile of manure looking for a Pony is delusional and in need of professional help. I must have dismissed Mort as a quack. One of my Southwestern awards had an etching of Mort doing something funky with his hands and a quote of his. Something about “thinking big” I believe. I trashed my Southwestern awards when I found them during a move – had to get rid of useless “clutter” (years ago).

Extortion: The base foundation of the “experience” is extortion. The company had your money in their bank and if you weren’t the “good” “independent contractor” you would be sent home and screwed out of your delivery profits. Every now and then an “example” would be made of someone who was “disobedient,” sent home and lost their delivery profits. The primary motivation for showing up at the Sunday meetings and pretending you drink the company kool-aid was the fear of being screwed out of your delivery profits. We had a Southwestern “superstar” as one of the student managers. With a couple of weeks left in the selling portion Mr. “Superstar” told all of us that we had to move from our present location to a new location “at least 100 miles away.” No explanation was given. It was understood that this command was given because the company had our money and the leverage to practice this type of extortion. 28 years later I can not remember “Mr. Superstar’s” name, just remember him as “gospel of extortion boy.” Fascinating “character” legacy.

For those who have had the “experience” recently; after college you will get busy with life and the “experience” will fade away. After 25 years of marriage and 3 wonderful children the “experience” seems like a surreal dream of the “Alice in Wonderland” variety.

Some other thoughts. “Prostitute logic:” Little ditties like “You make what your worth” or the implicit “it’s only illegal if you get caught.” Let’s think about the “character” implications of these for a little while kids. Hmmm … what else. Oh yes, the experience is “spun” as “faith-building.” Let’s see … “Thou shalt practice extortion if thou hast the ability to do so” must be the 11th commandment. “Thou shalt use emotional sales tactics to get thy neighbors money” must be the 12th commandment. If your looking for a character building job and mental toughness then work with Autistic children; as a Nurses Assistant or even as Wait Staff. The Southwestern company has it’s own definition of reality and character.

The best “fruit” of the “experience” was a deeper appreciation of family; genuine relationships and personal integrity. If I may paraphrase Benjamin Franklin: “Experience is the best teacher, and the fool knows no other.” Politely reject the Southwestern “experience” and not be someone’s fool.

]]> By: john http://tysonwynn.com/2007/03/22/the-southwestern-experience-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5410 john Sat, 11 Apr 2009 16:07:00 +0000 http://tysonwynn.com/?p=407#comment-5410 I read all the comments from the blog, but if you are trying to tell people what the company is like you are not doing a good job because this is nothing but a southwestern bashing sight. There would need to be collected info especially of what others did from the weekly hook you get about everyone's sells. Going on a recollection of your experience and the friends around you does not tell me much. I read all the comments from the blog, but if you are trying to tell people what the company is like you are not doing a good job because this is nothing but a southwestern bashing sight. There would need to be collected info especially of what others did from the weekly hook you get about everyone’s sells. Going on a recollection of your experience and the friends around you does not tell me much.

]]> By: Jeff http://tysonwynn.com/2007/03/22/the-southwestern-experience-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5209 Jeff Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:51:33 +0000 http://tysonwynn.com/?p=407#comment-5209 Many interesting points and viewpoints on this blog. I myself am a southwestern alum, I sold during the summer of 2003. I made the average income that summer, somewhere around $8500, minus expenses, so I got a little over 5k at the end of the summer. I did everything I was told, I actually did do 30 demos a day. I even got the award for having my 3 best weeks at the end of the summer. I, like many others, was slightly brainwashed into thinking I was selling a good product. I didn't even see the actual 5 set of books until the end of the summer when I was delivering. I do actually feel like I conned people into buying those books, looking back at it. I learned a lot about selling and motivation, but those books are junk, and not worth anywhere near the 500 some dollars I was charging people for them, or 200 some dollars for the 2 book set. On top of the rip off price I was charging, I convinced many people who had almost no money to buy them, just so I could make a couple extra bucks during the summer. The argument that the company has been along for 100 years means almost nothing to me. Maybe these books were more helpful 100 years ago, but not today, and not with the internet. Times change. I can find 10 times more information going on google than I ever could in those books. Their product and business model might have made sence a long time ago, but it no longer seems optimal today. Knocking on doors and asking for a place to stay is no longer acceptable in society(this was the recommended way of finding housing when I sold). Instead of selling books, they should focus on some kind of CDs with advanced searches on topics, and include about a hundred times more material than the books do. By the way, I currently work as an Engineer for a major electronics company, so I do consider myself to be successful, but I am not convinced my summer with Southwestern is what made me any more successful than I would have been. Might be a little mentally tougher though, as it was a very difficult summer. Many interesting points and viewpoints on this blog. I myself am a southwestern alum, I sold during the summer of 2003. I made the average income that summer, somewhere around $8500, minus expenses, so I got a little over 5k at the end of the summer. I did everything I was told, I actually did do 30 demos a day. I even got the award for having my 3 best weeks at the end of the summer. I, like many others, was slightly brainwashed into thinking I was selling a good product. I didn’t even see the actual 5 set of books until the end of the summer when I was delivering. I do actually feel like I conned people into buying those books, looking back at it. I learned a lot about selling and motivation, but those books are junk, and not worth anywhere near the 500 some dollars I was charging people for them, or 200 some dollars for the 2 book set. On top of the rip off price I was charging, I convinced many people who had almost no money to buy them, just so I could make a couple extra bucks during the summer. The argument that the company has been along for 100 years means almost nothing to me. Maybe these books were more helpful 100 years ago, but not today, and not with the internet. Times change. I can find 10 times more information going on google than I ever could in those books. Their product and business model might have made sence a long time ago, but it no longer seems optimal today. Knocking on doors and asking for a place to stay is no longer acceptable in society(this was the recommended way of finding housing when I sold). Instead of selling books, they should focus on some kind of CDs with advanced searches on topics, and include about a hundred times more material than the books do. By the way, I currently work as an Engineer for a major electronics company, so I do consider myself to be successful, but I am not convinced my summer with Southwestern is what made me any more successful than I would have been. Might be a little mentally tougher though, as it was a very difficult summer.

]]> By: Andrew http://tysonwynn.com/2007/03/22/the-southwestern-experience-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4873 Andrew Sat, 04 Oct 2008 07:21:23 +0000 http://tysonwynn.com/?p=407#comment-4873 Anyone can be successfull doing this. If you truly stay positive, and motivated all summer long, whilst sticking to the perscribed schedule it is impossible to fail. Any failure you have in this program you can only attribute to not stay positive and motivated. Incidentally, if you lack self motivation, this is one of the best ways to learn it. Just like my scottish soccer coach used to chant when we did wind sprints... "No pain, no gain." Very few things in life come easily, even fewer of those are actually worth anything. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. For the record, I am incredibly cynical. Anyone can be successfull doing this.

If you truly stay positive, and motivated all summer long, whilst sticking to the perscribed schedule it is impossible to fail. Any failure you have in this program you can only attribute to not stay positive and motivated.
Incidentally, if you lack self motivation, this is one of the best ways to learn it. Just like my scottish soccer coach used to chant when we did wind sprints… “No pain, no gain.” Very few things in life come easily, even fewer of those are actually worth anything.

I’m sorry, but it’s the truth.

For the record, I am incredibly cynical.

]]> By: Tyson Wynn http://tysonwynn.com/2007/03/22/the-southwestern-experience-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4868 Tyson Wynn Fri, 26 Sep 2008 22:35:37 +0000 http://tysonwynn.com/?p=407#comment-4868 In regards to Travis: do you even know how to read? You said: <blockquote>Its sad you all were not able to stick to what you said you would do and work 80 hours a week and do 30 demos a day. Its only 12 weeks. I have friends and family members that spend 52 weeks in Iraq, and we praise our military. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves. Not our fault you don’t know how to work.</blockquote> 1. We did exactly what we said we would. 2. Are you honestly trying to make some comparison between the book field and the battlefield? 3. I don't feel sorry for myself in the least. 4. I could teach you a thing or two about work. It's a good thing you got mad sales skills because you're gonna need them to make up for some poor reading comprehension and logic skills. In regards to Travis: do you even know how to read?

You said:

Its sad you all were not able to stick to what you said you would do and work 80 hours a week and do 30 demos a day. Its only 12 weeks. I have friends and family members that spend 52 weeks in Iraq, and we praise our military. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves. Not our fault you don’t know how to work.

1. We did exactly what we said we would.

2. Are you honestly trying to make some comparison between the book field and the battlefield?

3. I don’t feel sorry for myself in the least.

4. I could teach you a thing or two about work.

It’s a good thing you got mad sales skills because you’re gonna need them to make up for some poor reading comprehension and logic skills.

]]> By: Tyson Wynn http://tysonwynn.com/2007/03/22/the-southwestern-experience-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4867 Tyson Wynn Fri, 26 Sep 2008 22:30:34 +0000 http://tysonwynn.com/?p=407#comment-4867 Thanks for commenting, Darren (and the others). There's one thing that I see recurring, and it underscores some of my issues with SW. Everyone seems to equate "success" with money. We read that people bring in "tens of thousands" and "$3.4B company." Frankly, I don't care how much money one can make doing the SW Co thing, and I don't care how large a company one ends up working for, it does not mitigate the many issues I listed in my post about how the SW Co does business with college students. And frankly, it is possible to be successful in spite of the SW Co. My opinion obviously differs from many of yours. BTW, in regards to Jenn above, it is my opinion that no one "needs" SW Co's products. Thanks for commenting, Darren (and the others). There’s one thing that I see recurring, and it underscores some of my issues with SW. Everyone seems to equate “success” with money. We read that people bring in “tens of thousands” and “$3.4B company.” Frankly, I don’t care how much money one can make doing the SW Co thing, and I don’t care how large a company one ends up working for, it does not mitigate the many issues I listed in my post about how the SW Co does business with college students. And frankly, it is possible to be successful in spite of the SW Co.

My opinion obviously differs from many of yours.

BTW, in regards to Jenn above, it is my opinion that no one “needs” SW Co’s products.

]]> By: Darren http://tysonwynn.com/2007/03/22/the-southwestern-experience-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4866 Darren Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:02:37 +0000 http://tysonwynn.com/?p=407#comment-4866 I sold with Southwestern for three summers in the early 90's. I am fully aware of how difficult this job is, especially now having been in a B2B professional sales role for the past 11 years. It is to bad you did not make it, I knew many who didn't and eventually I had enough myself. Make no mistake, the skills one can learn through this experience can benefit you for the rest of your life. This experience has had far more positive than negative. I still know many alumni, they are all successful today. I knew multiple people some from my university who brought home tens of thousands every year. If you can do this job nothing will phase you again. Professionally those who know about SW instantly respect you. I actually stumbled upon your blog as I was seaching online for Mort Utley stories, which is a topic my $3.4B company is currently researching. I still believe SW was an excellent expereince including the good, bad and ugly. I sold with Southwestern for three summers in the early 90′s. I am fully aware of how difficult this job is, especially now having been in a B2B professional sales role for the past 11 years. It is to bad you did not make it, I knew many who didn’t and eventually I had enough myself. Make no mistake, the skills one can learn through this experience can benefit you for the rest of your life. This experience has had far more positive than negative. I still know many alumni, they are all successful today. I knew multiple people some from my university who brought home tens of thousands every year. If you can do this job nothing will phase you again. Professionally those who know about SW instantly respect you. I actually stumbled upon your blog as I was seaching online for Mort Utley stories, which is a topic my $3.4B company is currently researching. I still believe SW was an excellent expereince including the good, bad and ugly.

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