The Southwestern Experience
30March 22, 2007 by Tyson Wynn
This is a post that is very difficult to write. Nonetheless, as I went through the events I will chronicle, I made a solemn vow that is I made it through I would someday expose The Southwestern Company for what it is. And so, bear with me as I recount the worst summer of my life. Bear with me, this is a long one.
I was a freshman at Oklahoma State, and somehow I was contacted by a representative of The Southwestern Company. I am still not sure who put them in touch with me, but one of the higher-ups at OSU was a Southwestern alum so there is no telling what kind of access they may or may not have to student data. Anyway, this representative gives me this deal about how I have been selected for an interview for a summer work program and could I come to a presentation on their program. I went. At the presentation, the other recruits and I were regaled with stories of how much money we could make in their summer work program and how attractive our Southwestern Company experience would be to employers once we were able to put it on our resumés.
Basically, the presentation was designed to do something we recruits would later learn all about in The Southwestern Company’s world-famous sales school: “Sell the sizzle, not the steak!” After a presentation which, by design, had all of us practically begging to be “selected” for this wonderful opportunity, I was selected for this wonderful summer internship program and assigned to my wonderful student manager Kurt. I liked Kurt actually, and I always felt for him because he suffered with cystic fibrosis. Anyway, he becomes my new best buddy, and we have to get my parents to campus to agree to let me be selected. My parents come, share with me their misgivings about the wonderful opportunity, yet give me their blessing because my parents are like that. They have always supported me and let me go my own way, even when they were not so sure. It’s a nice quality for parents to have. The long and short of it is that I and the other summer interns are going to be trained to sell a wonderful product that families really need, then we will be placed in other areas of the country to sell the product, rake in the cash, and polish our resumé.
Our preparation for this trek is that as soon as final exams are over we need to be ready to leave the next day and caravan with the group to The Southwestern Company’s world headquarters in Nashville, TN. Once there, we will have to front the money to split motel rooms with the other recruits from our university for the week that we are undergoing our world-class salesmanship training.
Sales School
Sales school was a week-long series of motivational speeches, company instruction, and sales technique practice at HQ in Nashville. You are issued your salesman’s bookbag (a putrid green monstrosity in my day). It is filled with samples of the books you are to have the great opportunity to sell that summer. The flagship product of the Southwestern line is The Student Handbook. If recollection serves it was copyrighted 1976. I was selling in 1996. It is a large book just chock-full of information for helping students with their homework. It could be sold solo or with the full 5-book Student Handbook Set (they preferred if we called it The Student Handbook System). There was a children’s book series (the first book of which was orange), and the hot product for the summer was a special-edition Olympic cookbook to commemorate the Atlanta Olympics. If memory serves, all of these items were billed to your account with the company.
The motivational portion of the week was handled by Mort Utley. Mort Utley was dead. I am serious. Mort had been The Southwestern Company’s resident motivational guy for years, and it was, for all intents and purposes, Mort’s job to sell The Southwestern Company to those of us fortunate enough to be selected for this life-building opportunity. Then Mort had the audacity to leave this earth. Fortunately, someone at The Southwestern Company had had the foresight to videotape Mort so that they would never have the inconvenience or cost of replacing him, even after death. So, we watched lots of Mort telling us how good we could be, and that we should sell the sizzle not the steak, and that we needed to learn our sales talks backward and forward, and that if we just committed to give it our all, we would succeed, and that we should never quit, and that if we had the right attitude about life, we could be given a pile of horse manure for a birthday gift and we’d love it because with all that manure, there had to be a pony around somewhere. Mort would tell amazing stories about how he would meet students desperately failing at sales, then Mort would give them a good motivating talk, and they would go back out there and try. And even if they didn’t do well or make any money, they wanted to come back again next year just because of the experience.
Aside from Mort, there were the company instructions. For example, you will have to find your own place to stay once you are in your assigned sales territory. The Southwestern Company’s recommended method of finding summer housing was to get in your territory and start knocking on doors explaining that it may sound crazy but you are just a college student from Oklahoma out here working for the summer and inquiring as to whether the homeowners might have a room to rent for the summer or maybe know of someone who would have a room to rent for the summer. I am not making that up. I swear. And you need to make sure you find a room the first day you are in the territory, because dalaying it to the second day could cut into valuable sales time.
Another little instruction: as soon as you can, usually with checks from your pre-paid sales, open a checking account at a local bank. But whatever you do, under no circumstances are you to have checks printed with The Southwestern Company’s name on them or your name dba The Southwestern Company. You are an independent contractor. Remember that!
The real theme to Sales School was 30 Demos a Day. If you will just demonstrate this needed product to 30 families or individuals a day, you will succeed! Make the commitment to do 30 Demos a Day! It is your new religion. Say it in your sleep. Everyone all together, 30 Demos a Day! As an example, over the summer we were very impressed by those who were so committed to the 30 Demos a Day philosophy that, if they were coming up short as stop-work time came, they would stop at a gas station and approach strangers just to get their 30 Demos in. What dedication!
We were also taught the proper procedure for knocking on doors. There is a right way to set your bag down, hold the product, knock on the door, introduce yourself–falling back on the ever-popular, “This may sound crazy but I am just a college student out here working for the summer…” routine, and demo the product.
We were given a recommended daily schedule of when to rise, eat, sleep, work, etc. We would need to live cheap and work 80 hours a week, but we would be rich and brimming with confidence after the summer of experience. Some guys didn’t even eat lunch while they sold, they just had a big container of peanut butter they ate with their fingers! What an example for us all! We all had to be back to our rooms, which we shared with other recruits, by a certain time each evening so that we could call our student manager and report the day’s progress—how many demos? how many sales? how much pre-paid? And if you ever had a 0 day, you would have to go spend the day with a successful seller and watch how they do it. We don’t like 0 days. At all.
And so, after our week of second-to-none training, we were all hepped up and chomping at the bit to get out there and sell, sell, sell. It was time for our territory assignments. I can vividly remember a meeting in which we were told this elaborate story about some sales territory and how awesome it was and how the Company was going to pay for this, that, and the other thing, and it had everyone all just totally excited. Then they reveal it was a joke. He-he, ha-ha. Hilarious. Our real territory would be, drumroll please, exciting North Carolina! For our specifics, we had to go to see our big sales manager, who was actually employed by The Southwestern Company. In my case, that was Mr. Rusty Branch. He told me who my roommate would be for the summer. Then he told me we would be based in Rockingham, NC. We would have two counties to cover.
At some point, I inquired about being able to go to church on Sundays, to which I was told absolutely, we were free to do that. Sundays were our free day (we were expected to work the other six). The big surprise, though, once you are in the field is that Sundays are days off from door-knocking, but they are reserved for meetings with your sales manager. Everyone has to travel to the town (usually city) where your sales manager has been placed (in the primo locations), eat at some nasty buffet, and maybe go to a movie, in addition to the stupid chants and things called Executive Exercises. I guarantee you Donald Trump never did one of these ridiculous things. Long story short: church does not fit into the plan. We might crack a Bible for some 15-minute sort of devotion, but no church. One Sunday out of the whole summer I skipped the Sunday meeting to go to church with some wonderful folks I had met. I was berated for missing the meeting. And my skipping was used as a reason for my having done do badly. Funny, I did just as badly when I went to the meetings.
Back in Nashville at Sales School. Rusty did something that would cement this as the worst summer of my life. He asked me to give my word that, no matter how bad it was, no matter how poorly I did, no matter how much I wanted to go home, that I would not give up and go home before the summer was over. And I agreed. He asked me to give my word. And I gave him my word. [Are you getting the point that that meant something to me?]
In North Carolina
So then the group from OSU caravanned to North Carolina from Nashville, losing a couple every so often as they pealed off into their territory. Jimmy, my roommate, and I eventually ended up in Rockingham, NC. It was too late to look for a permanent place to stay that night, so we stayed at a cheap motel that smelled very strongly of curry. Early next morning, we set out to locate us a summer pad. They key to this was first trying a very short contact list (I believe it contained one name) provided by our benevolent company (of which we are not employees but only independent contractors) of persons who had housed some Southwestern vagabonds in previous summers. We located that place, to discover no one at home. Failing the contact list, we were supposed to begin knocking door-to-door inquiring as to whether the residents who had the misfortune to answer might have a room to let for the summer. Of course, most normal folks not being in the boarding house business these days, there were not many yeses. In fact, there were none. But a no on the room just gave us the opportunity to whip out our trusty Student Handbook and get in one of our 30 Demos a Day. Eventually, Jimmy caught up to me (pre-cell-phone-popularity days) to tell me he had located us a place to stay. And I have to admit, it was a pretty nice place. A family had a garage apartment they were willing to rent to us for the summer. Decent setup. So we took it, and got all settled in.
Next, we had to divide our sales territory. We had been given Anson and Rockingham counties. We were staying in the city of Rockingham in the county of Rockingham. Somehow we decided Jimmy would take Rockingham County and I would take Anson, probably because I had a more reliable car, though they both had made it to North Carolina from Oklahoma, via Nashville.
And then our summer began in earnest. It was day after day of cold calling door to door. We had been taught in Sales School to look for yards full of toys as an indicator of the presence of children. Make initial contact during the day. Get those 30 Demos a Day in. Either make the sale, literally lodging your foot in the door to keep it open, or get an appointment to come back in the evening to demonstrate the products to the whole family, or at least Dad if he is the decision maker in the family, plus if you were really good, you could schedule your last demo of the day to coincide with the dinner hour at a particularly promising house and probably get yourself invited to stay for dinner, successfully saving the cost of that meal. Cha-ching!
In all, the summer consisted of many crudely drawn maps on legal pads, with squares representing the houses. We were to make ourselves into private eyes to determine the comings and goings so we could catch people at home. Hopefully, we would make some early sales so that we would have some influential names in our sales book that we could flip through and show potential new clients. If we could make the sale, we were to get at least half the payment upon ordering, if not all of it. [Now that I am an adult, I would not even consider giving a "student salesman" who showed up at my door one thin dime.]
And here’s the big news: I was horrible at selling. There are several reasons. I think the mainest one is that the area had been literally saturated previously. I can’t tell you how many people would be more than glad to go get me their previously purchased Student Handbook so that I could see they had bought one. Then they would be glad to point out that they had not been cracked since they were delivered by the last poor sucker to come by, though he was fortunate enough to have made a sale. And that leads to another reason for my lackluster sales. The products. As far as I could tell, the Handbooks didn’t contain any information that could not be obtained by looking in the average student’s textbooks. It may have been in there, and we were certainly trained to profess the wonders of the product, but in the end, it was not a product I believed in. And before you say that I should have known that before I committed to The Southwestern Experience, let me state that we did not even see the products until we arrived in Nashville for Sales School. And once we did have our sample book, it was a condensed version of highlights from all five books. We were directed to focus on its superior craftsmanship, like stitched pages rather than glued. In fact, one of our favorite demonstrations was to flip the handbook open to a center page, place the palm of either hand on each side of a single page, and lift the entire book in the air suspended by just one of our quality pages. The trick here was that is was wise to not use the same page more than once. I actually witnessed Kurt do this demo just to have the page rip out of the book as he looked helplessly at the potential customer. Can you say, “No sale?”
My concern, and it turned out to be a huge concern for potential buyers, was why should they buy these huge handbooks when computers and the Internet were just becoming so popular? We were given counter responses to these concerns at sales school, but none were very convincing.
So we worked the plan. We did the research. We did our 30 Demos a Day. And Jimmy and I sold very little. And you see, selling was our only means of supporting ourselves. That was why it was so important to get as many of our sales to pre-pay as possible. We needed that money to pay for our expenses, e.g., rent, telephone, gas, food. And additionally, we had to remit, remit, remit. That means we were supposed to be sending every dime we could spare after expenses to The Southwestern Company to the credit of our account. As independent contractors, we were not selling Southwestern’s books. We were demoing their product, but—as independent contractors—we were then to buy the books from Southwestern and sell to the customers. The difference in our cost and the price of sale was ours. It was that that was supposed to provide the big profits and self confidence of the summer work program. After a summer of selling and remitting, the company would ship your books to you (and of course, as an independent contractor, you would also be billed for shipping) so that your last week (or two if you sold enough) would be devoted to delivering the summer’s sales right before you headed home to start school.
Returning Home
Of course, before you could go home, you had to go back to HQ in Nashville and settle up accounts with the company. Once you were there, you had to get a motel, and go to HQ where they could evaluate your accomplishments and settle your accounts with them. And this is why remitting was so important. The Southwestern Company would ship your orders whether you had remitted enough to cover them or not. And surprise of all surprises, I had not remitted enough money to cover my shipment. The most embarrassed and pitiful I have ever been in my life was the day I had to call my Mom from The Southwestern Company’s HQ and ask for $800 I knew they did not have to get me home. It shames me to this day. But my folks had some credit and graciously used it to bring their stupid son home. It sure wasn’t easy for any of us. And they never said they told me so.
Now, as far as the summer goes, it was the worst of my life. Before or after, I have never known the loneliness I experienced that summer. I mean it was seriously like being totally forsaken. I was alone. I was far from home. I knew I was doing badly. My brains told me to go home and work with my dad or anything to get out of the mess I was in. But I believed in what I had been fed by Mort Utley and The Southwestern Company crew. If I gave up and went home, I would be cheating myself out of all I could be if I was just persistent. If I would just memorize the sales talks and do my 30 Demos a Day, I would eventually see a swing in things, and I would be a selling machine. I would go home with lots of cash. I would win wonderful prizes throughout the summer (the price of which would be conveniently billed to your Southwestern Company Account). But most of all, I had given my word that I would not quit. I, being a strange little weird romantic type, had a deep-seated belief that a man’s word is his bond, so I refused to even really consider going home.
And as I think on this, I have two comments. First, The Southwestern Company should never ask anyone to give their word they will not leave. If you are failing at something in life, it might be a hint that you need to look elsewhere for success. It’s one thing to be persistent. It’s another to beat a dead horse while you starve to death. The second comment is that I learned a very valuable lesson. I will never, ever give my word flighty or in passing again. I haven’t changed my belief that a man’s word means something. It’s just that very few things are worth my word since then.
And, as bad as the summer was, and I really mean bad, it was also valuable to me. I learned many lessons that summer. Lessons that stick with me to this day. No doubt, some of The Southwestern Company apologists out there would grasp upon that point to say, “See, we told you you’d love the experience!” To which I reply, “YOu really know how to miss the point!”
Lessons
The Bible says that he who increases wisdom increases suffering. I think I gained a little wisdom that summer. Some random things I learned:
1. I love my family. From the depths of my utter loneliness, I realized how much I indeed loved my entire family. There were very few friends that contacted me that summer. I am remembering one right now that I think of very fondly. I got a letter from that friend, and it made my day. Heck, it made my summer. Absence indeed made my heart grow fonder for those who were the most important to me. There are very few days in my life that can compare to the day I returned home to see them all. When you are at your most forsaken moments in life, it becomes clear that family is just about all you can count on.
2. I love Oklahoma, specifically Welch, Oklahoma. It’s my hometown, what can I say? It always will be. And since then, I was effectively run out of it, but it’s still home, and there may be a triumphant return someday. And even if there is not, the few individuals who are responsible for a big mess will never, ever steal my fondest memories of my hometown.
3. I can see through salesmen like you wouldn’t believe. I learned a lot about it, and how unscrupulous people will talk up worthless products. Makes for really getting down to brass tacks when I buy things.
4. I will never sell a product I don’t really believe in again. We were sent to an extremely poor part of North Carolina. There were actually times when I knew for a fact that if I had made a sale, I would be taking money these people desperately needed for food, and I could not do that. Even if it made me a bad salesman.
5. Fight the system. Believe what my gut tells me. Go with my instincts. Falling in line and doing what is prescribed may work for some people. I have always been different, even odd, and it’s folks like me that make the world interesting. 
What I am saying, is that the world is looking for the one magic formula, and I can tell you that it doesn’t exist. Had I felt like I was allowed to do my own thing, or give up this for something else, I could have been very successful. But I believed what I was told, and I will never do that uncritically again.
6. Tell the story. I always knew I needed to do something to warn people to look at The Southwestern Company and its claims very carefully. I never knew what it was. Then this thing called the internet came about. So, here it is in black and white: my awful experience with The Southwestern Company. I am not saying that everyone associated with them is evil, but I think some were. I think they prey on the natural passions of college freshmen, and from the looks of the HQ in Nashville, it’s been very profitable. I am not even saying my experience is typical. But I think The Southwestern Company’s claims bear very careful scrutiny.
To this day, I see a road or a house that reminds me of that summer. I really think I was traumatized by the ordeal. I have moved on, and life is pretty good for me now. But, I have to think that there are others who had an awful summer at the hands of The Southwestern Company that might like to comment here. Mostly, I hope students who are recruited and their parents will find this through a Google search and be more informed about this one person’s Southwestern Experience. Be very, very careful!
I have no idea why I chose to share this now. But it was very cathartic.
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30 comments
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I’m sorry to hear about your experience. I sold my first summer with Southwestern in 2002. Charlotte County, Florida – the oldest average aged county in the United States at the time. Makes is difficult to sell children’s books. Most of the summer was well over 90 degrees and it rained every day. Finishing up the third week, I was making about an average of $2.65 an hour. Not good at all. My roommates quit. There was not a single thing going my way at the beginning of the summer. I was working my butt off and doing what they told me – “30 demos a day and control your attitude.” I completely bought in to the system and listened to their coaching. I was close to dead last the majority of the summer, but I kept my self in a positive mood and worked hard. I remember week six I was still stuttering over my words and occassionally rejected harshly for my lack of confidence. I had so much trouble finding people during the day that were not senior citizens. Eventually, it clicked just like my manager said it would. If I had given up two months in to it, I would have never throught it was possible to do well. My best week was over $1750, that seventh week. That doubled my profit for the ENTIRE summer at that point. In fact, I made 80% of my profit the last four weeks. I finished the summer above the average – about $9600. I had lots of car trouble that summer, and therefore, high expenses. I came back with a check for $6500. I learned more that summer then I did my four years in college. Now I know that no circumstance can prevent my success. You stick to the “schedule” and it works. You do what they recommend and it works. Nobody could have been a worse salesman that I, in poorer territory, or an older population.
Mark, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I am glad it worked out for you. But as I read your comment, I was struck by some things. Like: “Eventually, it clicked just like my manager said it would.” But what if it doesn’t? What is their guarantee? It never clicked for me. I listened. I learned. I put it into action. The pat answer from the SW Co. yes-men types is that if I had just tried again the next summer, it woulda happened. Unfortunately, I didn’t have another summer to waste.
And when you say: “Now I know that no circumstance can prevent my success.” It’s a bit naive to cling to that statement. Here’s a circumstance that prevents success: failure. Believe it or not, not everyone can do everything. The best education is one that teaches you not that enthusiasm and a positive mental attitude makes everything possible, but that we must find what we’re suited to, hone that craft, and be successful.
Thanks for the comment, but I have a feeling you will eventually learn more in the rest of your life than you did in that one summer.
And I reject your last two statements. I am the case in point that “You do what they recommend and it works,” is false. And “Nobody could have been a worse salesman that I, in poorer territory, or an older population,” cannot be true if you made $9600.
You’re a great SW Co. apologist, but I have problems believeing your story as you presented it here.
Wow. When I posted about The Southwestern Company, I had no idea how paopular it would be. Since posting this, the bulk of new visitors to my site have been as a result of search engine hits for various combinations of “The Southwestern Company” and other words like “rip off.” I hope my story helps people make a more informed decision.
I also remembered another thing about the experience. During the recruiting period, the Southwestern Company alwas offers a list of independent contractors from last summer. If memory serves this list included their gross income. The SW Co. reps encourage you to call the people on the list and get their opinion. I have no idea how complete that list is. All I know is that when I got back to campus after my awful summer, the SW Co. folks started calling me to use me as part of their recruiting machine and re-commit to the next summer. I basically told my sales manager that I was through with the SW Co. Let’s just say it was not a pretty experience, and I think it boiled down to some failure on my part because I didn’t succeed and didn’t want to subject myself to another summer. It’s all just coming back to me. Talk about blocking our a trauma!
Southwestern Co is threatening to send to collection agency for being “signatory” on “letter of endorsement” for some guy from college. Never even heard of the company until they said as “signatory” i had guaranteed to pay huge bill because of “letter of endorsement”. I certainly never agreed to pay somebody else’s bills! What a ripoff!
D-
I just checked the SW Co.’s website and found the following in their parent FAQ:
I don’t know how well it was explained to you when you signed it, but I would strongly recommend getting some qualified legal advice. Unless you do, it looks like they will come after you, as a signatory, for up to $500. Please update us all when the situation is resolved.
Tyson, I agreed with you. When they sell you the position, it was totally structured. But when you are in the program, you would realize how ghetto everything is. You have to fill out everything by hand, same number carried over many times at different places, to get the balance. The most confusing thing is, you have to calculate all ur expenses and submit it to them. It’s not for your own benefit to organize it this way, but an informal unnoticed data collection survey to monitor everything you’ve been doing. It’s very true that Sunday meetings are just something that you have to attend…to kill of some times. They were usually unstructured, repeating what you’ve already known and tried. If you fail, it’s your fault. If you succeed, it’s their credits. What’s the deal with this?
I was put in a territory where people don’t speak english. Good Riddance. Sales talk are trash. You can figure here and there, showing your $40 badge and get doors slammed in your face. Why is that? How well do you believe that the entire student handbook or volume library can cover all the grades and topics in class, with only tens of pages in certain subject? Could 180 pages cover 12 years of school? Then, what’s the point of teachers.
Tyson, like you’ve said, it’s really traumatic when your sales manager gave your number to new first years and let them asking you about this SW experience. What are you going to tell them? It sucks and dont’ do it? or are you going to lie to them and reiterate your manager had been saying? Eitherway, yyour memory will come back to haunt you further.
Let’s say make do finish up with 10k going home. WIth that many hours of work throughout the summer, it would not be easier if you find 3-4 part-time job, that gives you about 75-80hrs of work, paying at $8 an hr? $10x80hrs/weekx16weeks (incl sales school, delivery, travel, checkout)=13k. Now, let’s ask, was it for the money? No. For Growth? Maybe mental growth, in the expense of nutrient deficiency and insane schedule they offer.
The internet objection is so true. Nowadays, you can find just about anything online. I don’t know if those SW dealers/managers do not know how to work google or what, there are many sites that teaches you how to do things instead of what things are.
Tyson, if only your posting was made earlier, I would definitely not be in this program.
P.S. the most hilarious thing is, they tend to ask the same alumni speaker to speak in gazillion different occasions. It seems like nobody would come up and talk to others about it but the few individuals.
Hi there,
I am also an alumni and from my experiences, I would say that your experiences are probably more typical than the stories recruiters tell you about those that make “thousands of dollars.” It is interesting how The Southwestern Company “rounds up” to make the numbers look better.
When the company tells you the average first year income is $2,630, what they are not including in that number is the number of students who go home in the middle of the summer. And conveniently, if you look at gross income as a profit measure of the summer you are not taking into account that your summer expenses are probably around $2,0000-3,000 for the summer. So any tax write off you earn for all your expenses becomes a moot point. If you are an average student you will make very little or, like the author of this blog and myself wind up calling your parents to pay for the books that you couldn’t buy with the income you made from the summer.
This also brings up another point. If you work your but off for the summer, and you don’t make enough to pay for your books. The company will still make money off of you even though you have a net loss because your status as an “independent” contractor means that they do not have to share in your losses. They will do whatever is required to collect on the debt you owe them.
I’m sorry but I laughed the entire way through this lengthy sob story. I will be going on my 3rd summer with Southwestern this coming summer, and could not be more excited. I received the exact smae training as you did and profited over $15,000 my first summer. I understand that not everyone is succesful in this job, but blaming your own life’s failures on a company that has been in business for over 100 yeras is just pathetic.
Caleb-
Should I be surprised that you laugh at another’s misfortune?
Anyway, it’s not a sob story; it’s an accurate record of my story with a company you obviously enjoy. I am happy that you did well. In fact, I hope that no one has as bad an experience with the SW Co. as I did.
My point is that not everyone is cut out for sales. You obviously are. It would be folly for me to expect you to excel at everything I excel at–even with the same training. My biggest issue with the SW CO. is its assertion that one’s lack of success as a door-to-door book salesperson is somehow indicative of one’s drive, motivation, self confidence, or future success.
I am a successful person. My life is great, and I am truly happy. Had I taken all of the SW Co.’s propaganda to heart, I could have been decimated for life because I wasn’t a good book salesman. Or I could have wasted another summer trying to “get it.” As it stands, I pursued other, better (for me) avenues.
I don’t begrudge you any success with SW. I hope you make twice as much next summer. But I also hope you learn to understand that the world is full of a broad spectrum of individuals with different talents and strenghts. To expect everyone to measure up to one standard, handed down by a door-to-door sales company no less, is short-sighted.
And it is not lost on me that I received another comment the same day as yours that finds my experience much more typical than yours. Why am I having visions of diet commercials that have actors regaling us with stories of extreme weight loss with just a little pill, only to hope we don’t see the disclaimer that says, “RESULTS NOT TYPICAL” when I read Caleb’s comment?
But, you’re probably laughing at bman, too…
My sister and I were just laughing today, remembering how horrible it was. We went into it together, of course not knowing what it would really be like. We thought we would sell some books and then hang out together. We only saw each other at breakfast for the first 8 weeks, until finally we just started blowing the whole thing off. You just have to take the whole experience and laugh about it because what else can you do? It was the craziest, lonliest, scariest, most undreapreciated “job” a person could have. I remeber one Sunday we were sitting in McDonalds eating 99 cent double cheeseburgers and jealously watching a guy clean up the trays at the garbage bin, because he had such an easy job (that paid by the hour).
I stunk at selling too because I couldn’t get myself to do the “emotional” sell that you have to do in the poorer neighborhoods like I had. My sister had nice neighborhoods and was great at selling but she just never bought into the cult-like mentality either. The 2-3 best sales people in our group were all classic jerks from top to bottom. A couple of kids in our group died in a car accident driving across the state to our Sunday meeting. The two “best” sales people didn’t come to the service because it would have ruined their routines. That was a perfect example of what they were like. Yeah, I learned a lot about sales people, and a lot about people in general. Sometimes the worst expereinces teach us the most, but I wouldn’t let my kids do it I don’t think.
“The best education is one that teaches you not that enthusiasm and a positive mental attitude makes everything possible, but that we must find what we’re suited to, hone that craft, and be successful.”
I think that was one of the wisest things I’ve ever read that came from a blog. Anyway, I happen to be one of those people who came upon your blog after doing a little research of my own when SW attempted to recruit me…yesterday and today, in fact. It might be because I’m a naturally more cynical person, but I thought the so-called “orientation” was quite fishy: http://www.xanga.com/item.aspx?tab=weblogs&user=BLoodRedRosez&uid=586473053
SW tried to recruit myself and my class mate. We wanted to go to america for an experience and a job. SW sounded ok at first, we tried to impress, and that’s when things started to not add up. They were giving us figures of if we sold 5 a day. 5 books a day? They’re having a laugh! That’s like telling a Jehovah’s Witness that on an average day they can convert 10 families. How many people actuall open the door to those guys? Or window and door sales men? Can’t they see we dont need them? hey knock on he ******* to get us to talk to them!
I’ve now read roughly 50 negative blogs about southwestern and only 2 positive. And those 2 seem to be a bit dodgy.
The meeting we had today was a farce. If I want a job in america then I’m applying for a job in Wendy’s!
Please check out my website which is an accumulation of info and testimonies against the southwestern company.
I am currently working in the deep south of these United States, while soliciting and pedeling books for the Southwestern company. Right now, I should be working, but I’m not, and I know that most of the rest of my first year buddies are not either. I lie about it, tell them that I make sales, that I get my 30 and 14 in a day. And I know that if I did go out there, that I would sell some books and make some money, but I just cannot will myself to do it anymore. I just don’t like the way I feel when I knock on doors. And I hate lieing. Of course, I don’t blame SW for me lieing, that is entirely my own fault. However, when delivery week comes in a few days, I will do everything that I can to get my units delivered. As I sit here and write, I cannot help but think, that financially this was a bad choice. On the other hand, I know there will be the friendships that I made, and sacrifices and risks that I learned about that I will take away from this job that were possitive. I am neither discouraging or encouraging anyone to do this job. The only hope that I can still hold onto about this job is that it will secure me a good job as a result of having this experience on my resume. To all out there who read this, be aware of the problems. Poor selling areas, older populations, and personal incompitance that could affect the outcome of any summer while selling books. I know this, because these are the exact problems that I have encoutered here with Southwestern.
Did the Southwestern program back in 05, but left early cause I wasn’t making money. It was tough. I wouldn’t consider it a scam or a cult or anything shady like that but it does take a special type of person to do it.
They were straight up about it. No deceptions. They said it was tough and we might get cops called on us and we’d hafta find housing on our own, but I still went on. Ended up in Cali, first two weeks were rough, 3rd week I pretty much had no motivation to sell and didnt do much. Part of it was Southwestern made a “mistake” and another salesman from another team was selling in my area. 4th week, I did decent. I felt like I was starting to get the hang of it, but then my roomate and I are forced to move in with the OL (his two roomates were in Mexico for the week with Habitat for Humanity or something building houses). That week, I could not make a sale and got sent home cause of that.
I regret doing it. I could’ve stayed home and been more productive. Some of their stuff is valid. “Schedule is your life line”, “hard work, positive attitude” stuff like that makes sense. But I remember one thing they had us say if something went bad. “This is good, this is great, this is awesome!!!!” Thats pretty damn stupid.
Hey,guys.
I’m from Russian(but at the moment study in Estonia) and one day called me this guy. He had my number from my friend,the chain how all those numbers came to him is really long.
I got interested in this selling books thing, as for a long time I’m dreaming to go to America.
We met, and my impression after our meeting was not the best, because I imagined a little bit another thing about selling the books from door to door.
Then we met again(and 2 times more).He was telling me the details of this ‘wonderful’ program.He is making team for the 5th year.And he was really motivating and after every meeting i felt that I should try to do that.Also that I know,what kind of person I am,if i want smth,then I’m very stubborn at that, if the aim I’m achieving is really good for me. And he told me so,that i believed, that i gonna have a great experience,and money as well.As first of all,in Estonia he takes the2nd place,but 2 years ago he was at the 1st place from Estonia,in salespersons.I was impressed,that should mean smth to work in a team,where leader is one of the best from this country.
But then i start doubting,as smth should be not so well in here.He also gave me 4 numbers of people,coz i had to ask them what was good in it,what was bad, how to succeed. And all the answers seemed like learnt by heart: Well,I learn a lot about myself,this is good experience and this summer I’m going again.
This made me started doubting,because if this job is really so hard,then it can’t be SO good and positive.
This guy, who is making a team, wa hardly telling me bad points of this programme.And i became so sure,that i really want to sign up for that.Then,i decided to google some other pages,with another side of a medal.And i found.Now i’m just shocked reading all these.I could imagine,that it’s gonna be really hard,but really WHAT IS IT FOR?!?!?!
I think it’s only about cheap working force(students) to sell these books.And indeed,those books are not so special,u can find a lot of other encyclopaedias.
And the only question now i have is, Why was he motivation me so much? And I’ve said,why could i be good for that.I had a hard enough period in my life, and i think i better go to work to GB for a summer,at least i can look the sights, and I shouldn’t ask 3000$ from my parents, that’s totally unfair.
And the last thing is that friend of friend of mine wants to go,and he is so excited as never before,he said> but that’s so cool!
Or real deep psychological infusion.
And also WHY all the people i called they had such a positive emotion about that? Seems,like SW just hypnotised them
P.S.I would be really glad,if my comment would be answered!
Thank you for sharing your experience! Now I’ve made my choice. And damn,i wanted to go so much…Really.But think it doesn’t worth it.Only thing can attract is money they promise for that.
The reason there are so many negative comments is because people in a negative situation find other people in the same situation to feel bad for one another. Its sad you all were not able to stick to what you said you would do and work 80 hours a week and do 30 demos a day. Its only 12 weeks. I have friends and family members that spend 52 weeks in Iraq, and we praise our military. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves. Not our fault you don’t know how to work.
Travis 5th summer “Bookman”
I am so sorry that your experience wasn’t positive for you. The Southwestern experience changed my life and I attribute most of my business success to it. The harder I work the luckier I get. I paid my way through college selling those books and I can honestly tell you, I never put my foot in the door or sold to someone that didn’t want and need them. I worked hard enough to get through the no’s and get to the people that could say yes. One of the families I stayed with became like an adoptive family and 12 years later we still take the time to visit. I made the best friends of my life, and I only wish I could have known Mort Utley.
By the way, my best friend quit, my roommate quit,
my books were run over by a car, and it was the hottest summmer in CT in over 50 years…One day I called my family and decided to quit, but then I decided to put my heart into it and get what I came for…I can’t imagine how different my life would be had I quit, physically or mentally…I hope that throughout your years, you will gain new lessons from your experience on the bookfield.
I was recruited to Southwestern in 1998. I was afraid and unsure what to expect. The company said it would be difficult, but if I stuck it out, I would become closer to the person I hoped to be. It was difficult, but I completed the first summer. And in the end, Southwestern was right. I grew as a person, and came back and did it for 2 more years. Today, as a successful professional, I always tell people about my Southwestern experience. And when I interview for jobs, I leave my competitiors in the dust, because I did something challenging and it made all the difference.
You can’t believe anything these reich-wing nutjobs say.
I sold with Southwestern for three summers in the early 90′s. I am fully aware of how difficult this job is, especially now having been in a B2B professional sales role for the past 11 years. It is to bad you did not make it, I knew many who didn’t and eventually I had enough myself. Make no mistake, the skills one can learn through this experience can benefit you for the rest of your life. This experience has had far more positive than negative. I still know many alumni, they are all successful today. I knew multiple people some from my university who brought home tens of thousands every year. If you can do this job nothing will phase you again. Professionally those who know about SW instantly respect you. I actually stumbled upon your blog as I was seaching online for Mort Utley stories, which is a topic my $3.4B company is currently researching. I still believe SW was an excellent expereince including the good, bad and ugly.
Thanks for commenting, Darren (and the others). There’s one thing that I see recurring, and it underscores some of my issues with SW. Everyone seems to equate “success” with money. We read that people bring in “tens of thousands” and “$3.4B company.” Frankly, I don’t care how much money one can make doing the SW Co thing, and I don’t care how large a company one ends up working for, it does not mitigate the many issues I listed in my post about how the SW Co does business with college students. And frankly, it is possible to be successful in spite of the SW Co.
My opinion obviously differs from many of yours.
BTW, in regards to Jenn above, it is my opinion that no one “needs” SW Co’s products.
In regards to Travis: do you even know how to read?
You said:
1. We did exactly what we said we would.
2. Are you honestly trying to make some comparison between the book field and the battlefield?
3. I don’t feel sorry for myself in the least.
4. I could teach you a thing or two about work.
It’s a good thing you got mad sales skills because you’re gonna need them to make up for some poor reading comprehension and logic skills.
Anyone can be successfull doing this.
If you truly stay positive, and motivated all summer long, whilst sticking to the perscribed schedule it is impossible to fail. Any failure you have in this program you can only attribute to not stay positive and motivated.
Incidentally, if you lack self motivation, this is one of the best ways to learn it. Just like my scottish soccer coach used to chant when we did wind sprints… “No pain, no gain.” Very few things in life come easily, even fewer of those are actually worth anything.
I’m sorry, but it’s the truth.
For the record, I am incredibly cynical.
Many interesting points and viewpoints on this blog. I myself am a southwestern alum, I sold during the summer of 2003. I made the average income that summer, somewhere around $8500, minus expenses, so I got a little over 5k at the end of the summer. I did everything I was told, I actually did do 30 demos a day. I even got the award for having my 3 best weeks at the end of the summer. I, like many others, was slightly brainwashed into thinking I was selling a good product. I didn’t even see the actual 5 set of books until the end of the summer when I was delivering. I do actually feel like I conned people into buying those books, looking back at it. I learned a lot about selling and motivation, but those books are junk, and not worth anywhere near the 500 some dollars I was charging people for them, or 200 some dollars for the 2 book set. On top of the rip off price I was charging, I convinced many people who had almost no money to buy them, just so I could make a couple extra bucks during the summer. The argument that the company has been along for 100 years means almost nothing to me. Maybe these books were more helpful 100 years ago, but not today, and not with the internet. Times change. I can find 10 times more information going on google than I ever could in those books. Their product and business model might have made sence a long time ago, but it no longer seems optimal today. Knocking on doors and asking for a place to stay is no longer acceptable in society(this was the recommended way of finding housing when I sold). Instead of selling books, they should focus on some kind of CDs with advanced searches on topics, and include about a hundred times more material than the books do. By the way, I currently work as an Engineer for a major electronics company, so I do consider myself to be successful, but I am not convinced my summer with Southwestern is what made me any more successful than I would have been. Might be a little mentally tougher though, as it was a very difficult summer.
I read all the comments from the blog, but if you are trying to tell people what the company is like you are not doing a good job because this is nothing but a southwestern bashing sight. There would need to be collected info especially of what others did from the weekly hook you get about everyone’s sells. Going on a recollection of your experience and the friends around you does not tell me much.
Excellent post, well done sir. Some thoughts on the “Southwestern experience” 28 years later.
Sales school: The only memorable item from Southwestern sales school was “talk low and slow.” The rest of it must have been easily forgettable “emotional candy.” I do not remember watching videos (’81) so we must have gotten the “live” Mort Utley. I watched Mort Utley give the “Pony” story online and still do not remember Mort or the Pony story. Hey Mort, a kid who digs through a pile of manure looking for a Pony is delusional and in need of professional help. I must have dismissed Mort as a quack. One of my Southwestern awards had an etching of Mort doing something funky with his hands and a quote of his. Something about “thinking big” I believe. I trashed my Southwestern awards when I found them during a move – had to get rid of useless “clutter” (years ago).
Extortion: The base foundation of the “experience” is extortion. The company had your money in their bank and if you weren’t the “good” “independent contractor” you would be sent home and screwed out of your delivery profits. Every now and then an “example” would be made of someone who was “disobedient,” sent home and lost their delivery profits. The primary motivation for showing up at the Sunday meetings and pretending you drink the company kool-aid was the fear of being screwed out of your delivery profits. We had a Southwestern “superstar” as one of the student managers. With a couple of weeks left in the selling portion Mr. “Superstar” told all of us that we had to move from our present location to a new location “at least 100 miles away.” No explanation was given. It was understood that this command was given because the company had our money and the leverage to practice this type of extortion. 28 years later I can not remember “Mr. Superstar’s” name, just remember him as “gospel of extortion boy.” Fascinating “character” legacy.
For those who have had the “experience” recently; after college you will get busy with life and the “experience” will fade away. After 25 years of marriage and 3 wonderful children the “experience” seems like a surreal dream of the “Alice in Wonderland” variety.
Some other thoughts. “Prostitute logic:” Little ditties like “You make what your worth” or the implicit “it’s only illegal if you get caught.” Let’s think about the “character” implications of these for a little while kids. Hmmm … what else. Oh yes, the experience is “spun” as “faith-building.” Let’s see … “Thou shalt practice extortion if thou hast the ability to do so” must be the 11th commandment. “Thou shalt use emotional sales tactics to get thy neighbors money” must be the 12th commandment. If your looking for a character building job and mental toughness then work with Autistic children; as a Nurses Assistant or even as Wait Staff. The Southwestern company has it’s own definition of reality and character.
The best “fruit” of the “experience” was a deeper appreciation of family; genuine relationships and personal integrity. If I may paraphrase Benjamin Franklin: “Experience is the best teacher, and the fool knows no other.” Politely reject the Southwestern “experience” and not be someone’s fool.
John,
This is not a SW bashing site. This is my personal website, wherein I commented about my experience with SW Co. The comments come from everyday people who found the site via the Internet; none of them are my friends. I approve all comments made, whether they agree with me or not (so long as I can determine the commenters are not affiliated with SW Co.). Your comment is way off base.
I was recruited for Southwestern this past May, but backed out of it before putting in any money after doing some research. I’m a student in sociology, so I’ve studied social theory, organizational theory, and specifically things like Enron, the practice of sub-prime lending, and the fast food industry. I find the Southwestern phenomenon fascinating from a sociological perspective, though I personally disapprove of the company and its business model. I found Mr. 28 Years Later’s post really interesting in this respect, since they’re things I couldn’t have known since I have never actually done the program and never intend to. One of the most important consciousness raising steps I took was to decide that I do desire challenge and personal growth, but that Southwestern is simply a bad avenue.
I would also like to say that I really enjoyed reading this post. I see that you label yourself a right-wing nutjob and a religious fanatic (though maybe somewhat jokingly), so we would probably disagree on nearly everything. But I really appreciate the candor and humanity displayed here, in addition to the writing skill.
I hear all this talk about about what SW did and did not do. But it is not about SW in the end, it’s about you. Its aobut the 80/20 rule. I faild my frist two summers. I owed the comany money. I had to look inside myself and I saw things about myself that I did not like. I came face to face with fear. I had a deep fear of being outside my comfort zoon. As hard as this program was it was the best education. Columbia Universtiy,The State university of New York and other places of learning did not come close. So for all those out there who want to say that SW did something wrong I say check yourself and ask the question. When did you plan to step into the real world? For most college kids in our nation… facing fear, life and death… as part of their daily living is not part of the equation. In the SW program ones gets set up for the truth about themself. For most of us, we do not like what we see. So we blame SW. By my trhid summer I got it. I made myself deal with me and my fears. And I made money and life long friendships. I went out there for four summers and I hated each one but I love the man I became. A man who can deal with life and all that comes my way. From babies dying to my mother dying, to Making money to loosing money, to having my house burn down, or the joy of my first born. Guys it’s called life. And I have been ready for it and dealing with it from the age of 19 till now at 50. And I owe SW a [thank you] for putting it in my face the way they did …. A kid from Brooklyn New York who went on to make millions,give back to others…. travel the world….get along with people different from myself… not be taken back by the unknown….. I love you SW.